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Notice that I just didn't say remembering D-Day? Do you know why? Most of you do and I believe we have to get away from just saying D-Day. There were numerous D-Days during the war, not just Normandy. It was a very important one, but NOT the only one. So it's here on this forum that we shall learn and portray things in the correct light.

So take this day to remember the June 6, 1944 D-Day and all the men and women who planned it, helped carry it out and all those who gave their all for their country and the people they liberated.

For numerous Normandy D-Day links, please refer to this links page. Look under the heading Normandy D-Day heading. These are just a few of many, but these are great links to get you started.

Battle and Campaign Links

A special salute to the veterans on this forum who took part in it. I'm am glad you are here today to help us remember that fateful day that helped turn the tides of history.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13169544/

Thanks again James. You are such a peach!

Took me awhile to find this topic. Anyway, I have a question for anybody out there that might know the answer(s). I just finished watching a BBC program about the Normandy Invasion. In this film they stated that Montgomery planned the invasion and that he was in charge of all ground forces, both British, Canadian and American. It goes on to say that "all objectives were met', which is only partially true as I recall hearing....I though that taking Caen by D plus 9 was also one of those objectives and that was certainly not accomplished.

Another claim that I would question is about the reason why the British under Monty's control were given the assignment of "decoying" the German's armored divisions to head towards Caen was because Monty didn't think the Americans had enough combat experience to handle this job, therefore they was given the task of "breaking out" in order to cut off the Germans that were being "held" in Caen by the British.

This point really has nothing to do with the average foot sloggers of all the Allied nations, who performed their duties bravely, but it seemed more like a counter-punch by the BBC to some American historians who have been very critical of Monty in the past, like the late Steven Ambrose. I would genuinely like to know who was in charge on D-Day, as I had assumed for many years that it was Ike, since his title was "Supreme Allied Commander."

Dogdaddy

Jim, you are correct. On December 24, 1943, Ike was appointed supreme commander of the Allied Expeditionary Force, and the next month he was in London making preparations for the massive thrust into Europe. Monty worked closely with U.S. General Dwight Eisenhower planning and implementing the D-Day invasion of France. In September 1944, he was made a field marshal -- the highest rank in the British Army.

After the Invasion of Sicily, Montgomery returned to Britain to take command of the 21st Army Group which consisted of all Allied ground forces that would take part in Operation Overlord, the invasion of Normandy. Preliminary planning for the invasion had been taking place for two years, most recently by COSSAC staff (Chief of Staff to the Supreme Allied Commander). Montgomery quickly concluded that the COSSAC plan was too limited, and strongly advocated expanding the plan from a three-division to a five-division assault. As with his takeover of the Eighth Army, Montgomery travelled frequently to his units, raising morale and ensuring training was progressing. On 7 April and 15 May he presented his strategy for the invasion at St Paul's School. He envisaged a ninety day battle, ending when all the forces reached the Seine, pivoting on an Allied-held Caen, with British and Canadian armies forming a shoulder and the U.S. armies wheeling on the right.

Montgomery was in command of the Allied land forces, but was not the Supreme Commander.

The give everyone an overview:

British sector (Second Army)

6th Airborne Division was delivered by parachute and glider to the east of the River Orne to protect the left flank.

1st Special Service Brigade comprising No.3, No.4, No.6 and No.45(RM) Commandos landed at Ouistreham in Queen Red sector (leftmost). No.4 Commando were augmented by 1 and 8 Troop (both French) of No.10 (Inter Allied) Commando.

I Corps, 3rd Infantry Division and the 27th Armoured Brigade on Sword Beach, from Ouistreham to Lion-sur-Mer.

No.41(RM) Commando (part of 4th Special Service Brigade) landed on the far right of Sword Beach.

Canadian 3rd Infantry Division, Canadian 2nd Armoured Brigade and No.48 (RM) Commando on Juno Beach, from Saint-Aubin-sur-Mer to La Rivière-Saint-Sauveur.

No.46(RM) Commando (part of 4th Special Service Brigade) at Juno to scale the cliffs on the left side of the Orne River estuary and destroy a battery. (Battery fire proved negligible so No.46 were kept off-shore as a floating reserve and landed on D+1).

XXX Corps, 50th (Northumbrian) Infantry Division and 8th Armoured Brigade on Gold Beach, from La Rivière to Arromanches.

No.47(RM) Commando (part of 4th Special Service Brigade) on the West flank of Gold beach.

79th Armoured Division operated specialist armour ("Hobart's Funnies") for mine-clearing, recovery and assault tasks. These were distributed around the Anglo-Canadian beaches.

U.S. Sector (First Army)

V Corps, 1st Infantry Division and 29th Infantry Division on Omaha Beach, from Sainte-Honorine-des-Pertes to Vierville-sur-Mer.

2nd and 5th Ranger Battalions at Pointe du Hoc (The 5th diverted to Omaha).

VII Corps, 4th Infantry Division and the 359th RCT of the 90th Infantry Division on Utah Beach, around Pouppeville and La Madeleine.

101st Airborne Division by parachute around Vierville to support Utah Beach landings.

82nd Airborne Division by parachute around Sainte-Mère-Église, protecting the right flank. They had originally been tasked with dropping further west, in the middle part of the Cotentin, allowing the sea-landing forces to their east easier access across the peninsula, and preventing the Germans from reinforcing the north part of the peninsula. The plans were later changed to move them much closer to the beachhead, as at the last minute the 91st Air Landing Division was found to be in the area.

British Airborne landings

East of the landing area, the open, flat, floodplain between the Orne and Dives Rivers was ideal for counter-attacks by German armour. However, the landing area and floodplain were separated by the Orne River, which flowed northeast from Caen into the Bay of the Seine. The only crossing of the Orne River north of Caen was 7 km from the coast, near Bénouville and Ranville. For the Germans, the crossing provided the only route for a flanking attack on the beaches from the east. For the Allies, the crossing also was vital for any attack on Caen from the east.

The tactical objectives of the British 6th Airborne Division were to capture intact the bridges of the Bénouville-Ranville crossing, to defend the crossing against the inevitable armoured counter-attacks, to destroy German artillery at the Merville battery, which threatened Sword Beach, and to destroy five bridges over the Dives River to further restrict movement of ground forces from the east.

Airborne troops, mostly paratroopers of the 3rd and 5th Parachute Brigades, began landing after midnight, June 6 and immediately encountered elements of the German 716th Infantry Division. At dawn, the Battle Group von Luck of the 21st Panzer Division counter-attacked from the south on both sides of the Orne River. By this time the paratroopers had established a defensive perimeter surrounding the bridgehead. Casualties were heavy on both sides but the airborne troops held. Shortly after noon, they were reinforced by commandos of the 1st Special Service Brigade. By the end of D-Day, 6th Airborne had accomplished each of its objectives. For several days, both British and German forces took heavy casualties as they struggled for positions around the Orne bridgehead. For example, the German 346th Infantry Division broke through the eastern edge of the defencive line on June 10. Finally, British paratroopers overwhelmed entrenched panzergrenadiers in the Battle of Bréville on June 12. The Germans did not seriously threaten the bridgehead again. 6th Airborne remained in the line until it was evacuated in early September.

American Airborne landings

The U.S. 82nd (Operation Detroit) and 101st Airborne Divisions (Operation Chicago) were less fortunate in quickly completing their main objectives. Partly owing to unmarked landing zones, radio silence, poor weather and difficult terrain, many units were widely scattered and unable to rally. Efforts of the early wave of pathfinder teams to mark the landing zones were largely ineffective. Some paratroopers drowned when they landed in the sea or in areas deliberately flooded by the Germans.

After 24 hours, only 2,500 of the 6,000 men in 101st had assembled. The dispersal of the American airborne troops, however, had the effect of confusing the Germans and fragmenting their response. In addition, the Germans' defensive flooding, in the early stages, also helped to protect the Americans' southern flank.

Many continued to roam and fight behind enemy lines for days. Most consolidated into small groups, rallied with NCOs or junior officers, and usually were a hodgepodge of men from different companies, battalions, regiments, or even divisions. The 82nd occupied the town of Sainte-Mère-Église early in the morning of June 6, giving it the claim of the first town liberated in the invasion. While some objectives were met (often with far fewer men than the mission planners intended), many paratroopers were too busy fighting for survival to take offensive action.

The campaign in Normandy is considered by historians to end either at midnight on 24/25 July 1944 (the start of Operation Cobra on the American front) or 25 August 1944 (the advance to the Seine). The original Overlord plan anticipated a ninety day campaign in Normandy with the ultimate goal of reaching the Seine; this goal was met with time to spare. The Americans were able to end the campaign on their front early with the massive breakout of Operation Cobra.

The US official history describes the fighting beginning on 25 July as the "Northern France" campaign, and includes the fighting to close the Falaise Gap, which the British/Canadians/Poles consider to be part of the Battle of Normandy.

SHAEF, back in England, and the governments were very nervous of stagnation, and there were reports of Eisenhower requesting Montgomery's replacement in July. Lack of forward progress is often attributed to the nature of the terrain in which much of the post-landing fighting in the US and parts of the British sectors took place, the bocage (small farm fields separated by high earth banks covered in dense shrubbery, well suited for defence), as well as the usual difficulties of opposed landings. However, as at El Alamein, Montgomery kept to his original attritional strategy, reaching the objectives within his original ninety day target.

Thank You Marion. I guess they were correct in the film as far as Montgomery being in charge of all land forces on D-Day. For some darn reason I had it in my head that American forces were never under British jurisdiction during WWII.

Still learning,

Jim

Okay, you can stop banging your head now. Danged it boy, you'll give yourself a headache. Hey the learning curve for WWII history is pretty darned high. Trying to keep everything straight about who was who and what jurisdication troops were under, will sometimes put one's head into a spin.

Anyway, glad I could help out. Heck, what are friends for?

Thank You Marion. I guess they were correct in the film as far as Montgomery being in charge of all land forces on D-Day. For some darn reason I had it in my head that American forces were never under British jurisdiction during WWII.

 

Still learning,

Jim

Montgomery also commanded US Forces during the Battle of the Bulge. Because the near split in the American lines as a result of the "Bulge" created a difficult situation for command, Montgomery was given control of 2 of the 3 Armies from Omar Bradley's 12th Army Group. Since Bradley's HQ in the south had been isolated from the the 1st and 9th Armies in the North, they were attached to Monty's 21st Army Group. After the "Bulge" had been erased, the US 1st Army returned to Bradley but control of the US 9th Army remained with Montgomery through April 1945. As you can imagine Omar Bradley wasn't entirely happy with all of this, but it was Ike's call...

American ground forces in the CBI Theater in Southeast Asia were also under the command of British General Bill Slim until late 1944. In North Africa, the US 34th Infantry divison served under the British IX Corps for a while as well.

I would imagine British control of American forces on many levels occurred much more than one would think and vice versa...

Also believe it not, or at times US Army ground forces were even put under French command! In one particular instance, the US 36th Infantry Divison was put under the command of the French First Army during the battle of the Colmar Pocket.

In a war where (at least) two European countries switched sides, nothing really amazes me anymore.

Dogdaddy

North Africa was pretty much ruled by the British. The early days were a real debacle, as both were getting a real feel for each other when the Americans joined the British in November of 1942. The British had absolutely no confidence in the Americans and thought of them as wimps. The truth was that the Americans were GREEN at the time, and certainly didn't have the experience that the British already incurred against the Germans. But while true, the Americans weren't given a fair shake because a lot of early mistakes were due to leadership and poor communications between units and especially between British and American allies. You can also attribute this to some pretty poor tactics and lack of knowledge of the terrain.

Many times infantry were used where they shouldn't have been, and without adequate backup and artillery support. Men were simply slaughtered and it had nothing to do with poor moral or lack of experience on part of the Americans, although all did figure into the long-term equation.

As the campaign advanced, the Americans did prove themselves. Just look at the performance of such units as the 34th (Red Bulls) and the 1st (The Big Red One) Infantry Divisions, to name a few.