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After ww 2 M-1 rifles were sent back to the Military in large quantities. Also used in

Korea and possibly early Nam. DCM (Director of Civilian Markshmanship ) sold many,

many rifles to qualified civilians. As is the CMP (Civilian Marksmanship Program) is

still doing. Check on web site www.odcmp.com .. Also surplus M-1 ammo. Many

M-1 rifles were lend leased to both Greece and the Dutch and have been returned.

And yes. O.D. is olive drab, and in the states it was the winter class A uniform consisting of O.D. shirt, pants, blouse , hat and overcoat. Early field jackets were tan,

as were tankers jackets, mackinaws ETC but were considered field equipt. Later field

jackets were green. In ETO the O.D. pants and shirt were the combat uniform, along

with O.D. overcoats, or field jackets, pile liners (under field jacket) . Socks , scarves,

wool knit caps (jeep hats) wool knit gloves ETC were also O.D.. I am sure I missed

some things but that was 60 years ago when I was a 3rd I.D. dogface in ETO. If pic

comes out thats me on the left

Thanks for all the added info!!

To get the photo to turn out, use the FILE ATTACHMENTS feature when you post. Just select browse and look through your harddrive for the photo you'd like to use. It will come out as a "thumbnail-sized" print and anyone who clicks on it will see bigger size.

If it doesn't work, I had to limit the size of files temporarily because I was using too much bandwidth last month. I think I have it under control now. Let me know if you are still experiencing problems. I'm more than happy to help!

Thanks everyone for taking the time to answer my question regarding "ODs". You have no idea how long that has rattled around in my head. It's such a bummer having no male relatives (living, that is) who have been in the military that I could turn to and ask such garden-variety questions.

Okay, here's another one: reading military maps. I bought a book with maps from the U.S. Army regarding various campaigns in Europe starting with Normandy to the end of the war. Each page has a Map Legend on it telling me where the German lines were and where the American/British lines were on such-and-such a date. Gee, thanks. The dates are nice to know but who's who and where - I could have figured that one out myself - but the legends fail to indicate what those x's are inside those rectangular boxes. Some x's are inside the box, some are outside...? Some have a solid parallelogram inside the rectangular box and I'm pretty sure that means an Armored Divison but the others...?

Any takers on this one? Please.

Marilyn

Okay, that's an easy one for me to answer. Those are standard indications for types of units and you can find all the answers to your questions here amongst other places:

Army Units

Click on each designation for further info. I learned all this stuff back in my college days playing war board games such as the Battle of the Bulge, Stalingrad, etc.

Have fun sweetie!

:pdt40:

Okay, that's an easy one for me to answer.

Whew. Thanks. I was typing all of that when I hit a wrong key and it vanished.

Hmmm. Or did you take control of my computer and do that??

Actually, a good place to find this is in the back of ONE of the many volumes of US Army History book, if you have one of them.

Another reference:

FM 5-230 - Topographic Drafting - This is an instructional book used to teach how to draft maps. It begins with the basics of lettering and illustrates drafting tools. Then it gets into very technical details on photogrammetry and photo-mechanical mapping, restitution and photo offset. Section IX is on mapping coordinates and zones and the Army's use of maps in the field.

Pages 300, 20 fold-out pages in back with maps and symbols and photo mosaics + a pair of 3-D glasses.

Steve

Thanks Marion and Steve. Message received.

Marilyn

I just returned from being away and without a computer. The first time I started to answer the question about

symbols, the puter blinked and I lost it all. I'll try again.

Marion's link answers the question about the markings that identified the Size of the unit. Each unit symbol was a rectangle(or I will call it a "box") and the XXX or || would be on top of the box. That was only a part of it.

Within the Box was a marking for the TYPE of unit. Here are some examples:

INFANTRY = X - (or diagonal lines connecting opposite corners of the box)

CAVALRY = / - (one diagonal line to opposite corners)

ENGINEER = E (inside the box)

ARTILLERY = o (Solid Dot) [excluding coastal arty & AA]

ARMORED = oval (think of tank treads)

MECHANIZED CAVALRY = Oval and diagonal

(German Panzer units symbol was an oval and two diagonal crossed lines, or combination of INFANRY & CAVALRY)

MEDICAL = + or horizontal and vertical lines within box

AIRBORNE INFANTRY = X with double hump (similiar to 'm') under center of X

The letter or number to the LEFT of the symbol indicates the unit designation; that to the RIGHT, the designation of the parent unit to which it belongs.

Thus an INFANTRY symbol with | on top and "A" on left and "137" to right would be a symbol for:

Company A of 137 Infantry Regiment

(Single vertical bar is symbol for Company. Next higher numbered element is the Regiment.)

A simple INFANTRY symbol with || and a 2 to the LEFT and 350 on the right would represent:

2nd Battalion of 350 Infantry Regiment

(Double vertical bar is symbol for Battalion.)

Sometimes a unit number or letter would have "(-)" or "ELEM" to indicate that it was only part of that unit. So 137(-) in above example would mean that this was not a complete company

Also a map will show the "front line" position of the friendly troops. Perpendicular to this "front" was a BOUNDARY LINE that showed the division of the territory under the units command. This Boundary Line was extended on beyond the "front lines" to show the intended territory that would occupied based on planned advances.

This Boundary Line is usually a solid line and it would have the symbol for the command, like this:

--------- XXXX -------

This would indicate the boundary between two armies. Letters or numbers on each side of the boundary line designated the units seperated by that line.

Symbol for a COMMAND POST was the rectangle with a vertical line on one side that resembles a flag staff. This symbol was used to locate the CP on the map.

Now. Clear as mud. It's harder to describe than it is to draw. That is why I want to create page for this explanation.

Steve

Here is a map I drew for the break-thru of the GUSTAV Line on 11-14 May 1944 at the 85th Division sector of the front lines.

NOTE: Boundary Line between 85 & 88 Divisions and 338th & 339th Regiments.

Color Codes: Blue are 88 Division. Red are 85th Division for 11-12 May and Green arrows indicate movement up to 14 May.

THANK YOU, Steve! This is very helpful. I shall save it, print it out and study it more closely. This is just what I've been looking for. You're a lifesaver!

Marilyn

Sometimes a unit number or letter would have "(-)" or "ELEM" to indicate that it was only part of that unit,

ELEM or element means only part of the unit is present, either due to casualties or the unit was split up. This is the way it usually appears(as I see it).

Suppose Company A split out part of it and sent it to hold a town. Then the main body of Company A would be designated as A (ELEM) and the portion that was split off would be designated as A(-).

Steve

Official nomenclature -- US rifle, cal.30, M1

I will refer to these rifles as "Garands" (after the inventor, John C. Garand) hereafter as a matter of convenience for that was a term of endearment and convenience employed by so many GIs. I have shot many thousands of rounds using the Garand rifle -- it was indeed a superb Infantry weapon. In addition to its superior rate of aimed fire, it had the best issue sights I have encountered on a military rifle (positive click adjustments for elevation and windage) and was extremely accurate and very reliable.

They made up into excellent target rifles and accurized versions were produced by Military Marksmanship Centers -- with polished sears/hammer hooks, crisply adjusted trigger pulls and carefully bedded barrelled actions in the stocks -- I have scored several possibles (100x100) at 600 yds on the "B" (National Match course) target using two such rifles which I was issued and fired in competitive matches continuously for five years with occasional tune-ups.

I have also fired Springfield bolt action rifles (US Rifle, cal.30, Model 1903, A1 and A3) extensively. This was also a fine Infantry weapon although the rate of aimed fire was naturally not on a par with the Garand and the sights were inferior by comparison (although the "peep" rear sight on the A3 model was a big improvement over the open sight models).

Both the Garand and Springfield 1903 rifles used the 30/06 rimless cartridge -- a very powerful and accurate round. The commonest cartridge configuration issued in WWII used the 150 grain flat based cupro-nickle bullet at muzzle velocity of approx. 2800 fps -- tracer, incendiary and armor-piercing versions were issued in lesser quantities. Some long range cartridges (AKA competition cartridges) using a 172 grain boat-tail cupro-nickle bullet at a muzzle velocity of approx 2650 fps were issued, mainly for use in sniper rifles (equipped with leather cheek pieces and telescopic scope sights).

Both rifles were equipped with leather (older pre-war) or web adjustable slings and the Springfield with the M1 (earlier WWI vintage) bayonet and the Garand with either the M1 or M5 (short WWII) bayonet.

Incidentally, the Garand can be readily loaded with a partial clip by those who attain the skill -- usually target competition shooters who are used to initially loading with a partial clip of two rounds at the start of each rapid fire string (loading with a full eight round clip after the first two rounds are discharged) -- I can load a partial clip with ease and reasonable rapidity (I have had a lot of practice). I think the old saw about a weakness of the Garand being the "ping" of the ejected clip allowing a rush by an opponent during the reloading of a new clip in combat is overblown and somewhat of a myth. Even a moderately dexterous soldier can reload very rapidly and resume delivering aimed fire in a split second. It can also be loaded and fired as a single shot weapon if the need should arise, in fact, that is the way it is used in competitive/qualification long range shooting (600 & 1000 yards).

The Garand was the standard US issue Infantry rifle in WWII (and also in the Korean War). It was in general use by early 1942. The last unit to use 1903 Springfield rifles as standard issue was the US Marine Corps at Guadalcanal -- once they saw the effectiveness of the Garands in the hands of the Army units they soon adopted that weapon (and some Johnson rotary magazine semi-automatic rifles). The Springfield 1903 rifle was issued and used in a sniper configuration on a limited basis during WWII (and also in the Korean War).

In my opinion the best features of the "Garand" are its property of being able to deliver rapid aimed fire, its rugged reliability & dependability and its excellent sights.

The feared "M1 thumb" is a rookie mistake experienced when first learning to handle the rifle in basic training -- it is a result of incorrect handling during dissassembly and assembly training and dry firing exercises -- depressing the follower with the bolt locked open without controlling the operating rod handle -- the bolt then slams shut on the thumb (or fingers) producing a painful bruise. The correct drill is to position the heel of the right hand against the operating rod handle to prevent it from flying forward as the thumb depresses the follower -- just allowing the bolt to engage the bevelled rear of the follower then swinging the hand up and away thereby allowing the bolt to lock home.

Most recruits experience an "M1 thumb" at least once (the painful lesson is usually well learned) and it is considered a rite of passage by many small arms instructors. This situation does not occur during live firing as the top round in the clip controls the operating rod closure.