Correspondents Report - Sunday, 13 February , 2005
Reporter: Philip Williams
HAMISH ROBERTSON: Exactly 60-years ago one of the world's most exquisite cities, a jewel of art and architecture that had come to symbolise the cultural and intellectual achievements of European civilisation, was destroyed in just two successive days of bombing by British, Canadian and American aircraft.
Whether it was morally right to reduce Dresden to rubble, leaving tens of thousands of its residents as charred corpses, is still debated today.
It's a question that exposes some uncomfortable issues.
Is it even appropriate to regret the loss of so many fine buildings and priceless artefacts in the face of such immeasurable human suffering? And why focus so much attention on Dresden, when other German cities suffered equal destruction and loss of life?
Did the German people bring this catastrophe upon themselves by supporting an evil neo-pagan cult, or were they also the victims of the Nazis, who never won a majority of votes in the last free elections before civil liberties were abolished in 1933, and who manipulated their way into power, effectively staging a legal coup?
So should Britain and its allies officially express regret or is there, as some maintain, nothing to apologise for?
Well, currently in Dresden to take part in the commemoration of the anniversary is Canon Paul Oesterreicher, who's devoted his life to the cause of reconciliation.
He spoke to our Europe Correspondent Phil Williams.
PAUL OESTEIRREICHER: I'm here in a dual capacity, both as representative of the city and the church in Coventry, which is a twin city of Dresden, but I'm also a trustee of the Dresden Trust, which is a group of British citizens who got together in order to make a contribution to the rebuilding of Dresden's Protestant cathedral, the Frauenkirche.
PHILIP WILLIAMS: Why is that the name Dresden brings up so much emotion when a number of cities were bombed on all sides? What's special about Dresden?
PAUL OESTEIRREICHER: It's not an easy question to answer because I've often asked myself that question. I think the main thing is Dresden was a world centre of culture, music and art, to a degree that probably no other German city is. So people thought it was a kind of vandalism to destroy this jewel of architecture and of art and of culture.
As you say, Hamburg, for instance, was just as badly destroyed, and probably just as many people were killed. But, for some strange reason, some places take on iconic symbolism. How these symbolic things happen, it's a bit of a mystery, but I think it's the international significance of Dresden, and the fact that it was destroyed when the war was almost over, that it was packed with refugees, and that most intelligent people could see no military reason for destroying it.
PHILIP WILLIAMS: Was there any justification that you can think of?
PAUL OESTEIRREICHER: None whatever. I don't think morally, or in terms of military strategy, there was any excuse for what was done to Dresden. We have to face it. Total war creates a mood of total revenge, and that's what it was.
PHILIP WILLIAMS: Does it call now, 60 years later, for a heartfelt apology from the governments involved?
PAUL OESTEIRREICHER: Apology is something that certainly the British find very difficult, but there are different ways of apologising.
And if you consciously say, "We want to make a contribution to the rebuilding of your city, we know we are to blame for its destruction, we know this was great tragedy in the midst of war."
When the Royal Family itself as well as very simple people, poor people often, families of those who bombed the place, make a financial contribution to its rebuilding, it's a practical way of saying we're sorry even if the government doesn't make formal declarations.
PHILIP WILLIAMS: There was of course a visit recently by the Queen, there was some hope, locally, that she might say at least some comment of regret. That didn't happen. Was that an opportunity missed?
PAUL OESTEIRREICHER: I think it was and I was involved behind the scenes. The reason is, the British establishment were dead scared of Britain's gutter press, that there would be headlines, "Queen Licks The Arse Of The Huns."
PHILIP WILLIAMS: What of the German people, the people of Dresden, there seems and extraordinary lack of bitterness?
PAUL OESTEIRREICHER: Germans who have some kind of historical memory, knowing what Germans did, which let's face it, the holocaust was something infinitely worse, it really was an attempt to wipe out a whole people, and who started this war? It wasn't Britain, it was Hitler invading one country after another to conquer Europe.
When you put that into the balance, then it's not surprising that intelligent Germans say we brought this on ourselves.
PHILIP WILLIAMS: When you look at how the deaths of soldiers, for example, in Iraq are covered in the press, huge amounts of publicity over a handful of people killed, can we really relate to the tens of thousands that were killed in one night, now, when we're horrified by the deaths of a couple of individuals.
PAUL OESTEIRREICHER: Well, some people might say we've become a little more sensitive; that the war in Iraq, which I personally, and most British people find wrong, and in fact immoral, but nevertheless no one, now, no government would dare to say, "We're going to kill as many Iraqis as possible."
At least, there is some kind of attempt to say we have to limit the damage to other people. It's a small advance, but the kind of attitude of killing as many people as possible that was part of the psychology of the Second World War, I think, and I hope that that has gone. I'm not trying to belittle the tragedy of Iraq, but it is different.
PHILIP WILLIAMS: Do you think that the people of Dresden will get to the point where they no longer feel the need to commemorate what happened?
PAUL OESTEIRREICHER: I hope so, and I hope that they will recognise they're not a special case and I'm going to say that publicly in a speech I'm going to make here.
There were many, many Dresdens and this one has become symbolically important, but I hope the people of Dresden will sometimes think of what happened in Nagasaki and Hiroshima and what happened in Fallujah only a few weeks ago.
That's perhaps more important.
HAMISH ROBERTSON: Canon Paul Oesterreicher was speaking to our Europe Correspondent Philip Williams, in Dresden.
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There's "No Bridge Too Far"
