85th/540th Bridge Photos

[Custermen]

I noticed on eBay that they have a DUI pin for an 85th Engineers. I'm not sure if this is the pin for the unit that is the subject of this thread or not. They lable it as "CREST 85th--A1--ENG". The "A1" may refer to the version of the pin.

The pin is listed in under the category of WW2(1939-1945) | United States | Pins

 

I'm just curious to know if this is the DUI for this unit.

 

Steve

[Walt's Daughter]

I have an original for them. I will scan it later when I get a chance and post it here.

[Emerson_Bigguns]

Great Pics!

 

In the second photo... there are some lines run off the right hand side of the bridge which I assume is to help anchor the bridge against the current. Any ideas on what they might be tied off too?

 

[Walt's Daughter]

Got a few engineers looking at this post. Hopefully they will be able to give you some answers.

[alkincer]

The pontons(o) were anchored in several ways, usually a cable was stretched on the "Up" side from shore to shore with lines tied into & then down to the ponton. That worked better than The anchors that were available. Maintenance of the cable was a 24 hour task. Adjustments to the cable & lines was continious. The bridges bowed in the middle, the critical point, & could not exceed about 10deg. At times boats with motors pulled the bridge to the up side. Pontons are uncovered "Boats", pontoons have a top on them !!! Engrs. used mostly pontons. The 540th bridge across the Rhine is a ponton bridge. Who knows what the Rule of Thumb "Seven UP" means???

 

 

Floating bridges of any sort were a pain in the neck. The larger ones were especially tough, dangerous and harder to work on. WE had several near drownings, many broken hands and fingers from the unstable work place. Floating baileys were the worst, only one built by the 48th. WE built the one ponton bridge across the Neckar in Heidelberg on about 1 April 45. The high banks of the river made the approach & exit of the bridge especially tough. I'm sure the flow was much less than The Rhine (540) bridge. After construction of floating bridges it would take the supply sergeant several days to write "droppage reports" for the tools lost. Yes We had to account for all tools at all times.

[Walt's Daughter]

From my buddy Art Cook, 36th Combat Engineer

 

Dear M

 

Here's a couple of items

 

1. in your assemblage the word Small Boat was used.

 

For an assault-river-crossing, the engineers provided the boats and (each boat could carry only a few men and their gear) so depending on the number of men needed for the asault, an attempt was made to have a boat and crew (two engineer soldiers) for every six to ten men of the assault force (depending on the weight of the combined men and equipment.

There usually was a number of these boats involved depending on the magnitude of the assault force and their mission.

 

After landing a wave of the assault force on the far side, the engineer crew returned the boats to the friendly shore to ferry more troops as needed

 

THe boats were aluminum, open style similar to those usually used for fishing, except somewhat more rugged - This assault operation was mighty dangerous and frequently resulted in heavy casualties.

 

In practice the assault was conducted with guarded sacrecy and artillery support when needed - attemptng to reduce risk.

 

2. Using these small boats the engineers could improvise a foot bridge to allow the troops to cross water obstacles on foot if possible.

 

With the foot bridge, an anchor line was established just upstream from where the line of boats would be located/ The small boats would be assembled with a treadway, one boat per ten feet of treadway and of sufficient number of boats and treadway to provide length needed for a floating pathway across the body of water being spanned.

From each boat there was attached a line which was fastened to the anchor line and this provided the alignment of the footbridge.

 

These footbridges were usually used to provide easy passage of troops across shallow water or swampy places

 

installing and maintaining the footbridge was a responsibility of the engineers.

 

More later

 

Yours A

[Walt's Daughter]

More info on bridges from Art

 

 

Be aware that this bridging equipment can also be configured to improvise a raft. Either the small boat stuff or the more durable Armored Treadway . A little tricky sometimes depending on stream velocity etc. But it can be made to solve a problem.

 

 

ALSO - Bailey Bridges

 

Just as we were beginning to expand our army ( 1940-41) There appeared on the scene an erector set type of bridge stuff- developed by the British. WE had access to pieces - just to help us visualize the product, bu not enough from which to assemble a bridge.

 

So we were aware of the eminent possibility of a portable bridge that troops could assemble to span craters, blown bridges etc.

 

It was after the invasion of North Africa that we had access to a British operated school that was educating the Armed Forces of both countries to demonstrate this new item. I was able to send an officer and a couple enlisted men to the school and they returned all educated, but no bridge, yet.

 

Soon we had available in our theater enough pieces to actually build a bridge, for real. but it was in such demand - hard to get one to use.

 

Remember, tho I didn't emphasize it, This bridge could be delivered to the bridge site in pieces (similar to an erector set) Assembled in a reasonably short time and after it had no further use at its site, it could be dismantled. and reused at a new site. Now ain't that a great idea?

 

As things developed after the invasion of Italy, our Regt (36th) was probably the first in the theater of operations to have access to a complete bridge. And since I had trained personnel in my Company, we got to be first to put it to use.

 

This established my Company (Co "E") as the "Bridge Company" for the REGIMENT.

 

For awhile this allowed my company to trail along behind the regiment and if the situation arose, we would dash up to the scene of action and build a bridge.

 

This was sort of neat but it was not the best use of an Engr Company and soon the Army produced "Bridge Companies".

And the Corps had at least one such Company as part of its Order of Battle.

 

And then the big problem turned out to be not enough bridges on -hand . So then they included the bridge as available from the Engineer Depot. 1st come 1st to get a bridge.

 

Recalling my story of the great bridge we built to cross the Elbe River, Part of the amazing story even tho that was a floating bridge the bridging equipment was not in one spot, but separated in three engr depots. The depots were situated about 30 miles apart in different directions. And it was necessary to organize a special effort to collect the bridging equipment and deliver it to bridge site practically over night. Now that was a project and it was executed without flaw.

 

 

 

Now both the footbridge and the heavy equipment floating bridge are the Army's way of getting across bodies of water when no other suitable means is available.

 

The heavy duty floating bridge is similar in concept except, as you can guess, very much heavier construction . The pontons ( or pontoons S/P?) are large floating, inflatable raft( depending on my memory ) probably about 20 ft long and 8 ft wide. As they sit in the water, they are about 3 ft high.

 

Now these pontons are assembled in the water in a manner similar to the small boats in a footbridge and joined together with a heavy duty treadway to create sections that can be joined together. Obviously, this Provides for building a bridge "section by section" - One Ponton and a piece of treadway per section.

 

One starts a bridge by selecting a suitable site and securing the first section to the friendly shore - then adding a section at a time. Repeat this until the far shore is reached and the last section is secured to the far shore.

 

Now as each section is added to the bridge, a crew installs an anchor ( not unlike an anchor for a sea -going vessel) upstream from the bridge , roughly one anchor per section.

 

There are several versions of this floating bridge and I have lost track of the ultimate weight or vehicle carrying capability now in use.

 

During WWII this floating bridge had a capacity to carry 40 ton tanks.. Today's tanks are in several weight classes some exceeding 60 tons. Obviously the bridge will be improved to keep in step with the Army's needs.

 

Just as an aside, toward the end of WWII I was the operations officer for the Engineer Sect for the XVIII Corps (A-.

 

WE were called upon to build a floating bridge across the Elbe River (Northern Germany) -- To my knowledge, that floating bridge was the longest ever built --1400 ft The bridge was built in about sixteen hours. It was a masterful project that put our Army across the Elbe River three days ahead of the British.

[Emerson_Bigguns]

Thanks for the info. I was going to guess that it was a cable strung shore to shore. I also thought that maybe the lines had been attached to the wreckage of the old bridge somehow as well. thanks for the verification.

 

[alkincer]

Anyone going to take a stab at what "Seven-Up" means in building a floating bridge??? AL

[Walt's Daughter]

Gosh, no idea!!