Marine Corps field artillery at its best !!

[sixgun]

Wow! very amazing at first it looks like kaos, but these guys are like a machine the way they work . Hell yeah!

 

 

Vee

[CaptO]

Now we are talking about a subject that is close to my heart! When I finished my basic officer schooling (a combined 9 months) I went to artillery school at Ft. Sill. I spent 2 1/2 years as an "oh-eight" (08XX is the artillery occupation field in the USMC - 0802 is an Arty officer, 0811 is a cannoneer, 0841 is a fire direction Marine, etc.) I loved being on the gun line, but I only spent a short 8 months as a gun platoon commander of Golf Battery, 2d bn, 10th Marines. For the rest of my time in Golf Btry, I was either a forward observer or liaison officer (the liaison officer works at the infantry battalion HQ coordinating the observers who work at the infantry companies). After being the Guns platoon commander, I was sent to the HQ Battery, 2/10 to be the XO (for six months).

 

On to the video: It does seems like chaos here because these guys are in a real hurry as they are in a combat situation. Everything is actually going very smoothly (until the 47 second mark where it looks like the Marine inserting the primer into the "firing mech" is having issues to the consternation of the section chief.) What happens first is the commands from the Fire Direction center (FDC - they take the location of the target from the observers and turn that into firing data that can be put on the gun) are sent down to the gun. This includes shell/fuze combination, deflection (the left or right from the azimuth of fire) in mils vice degrees, the type of charge, and quadrant elevation in mils. They do not show this in the video. By the time we join the gun-bunnies in this video, they are already have the information and are firing as soon as they can get the rounds in and data set. In the video they say:

FPC(?) - this first command is garbled so I can't make it out. This is the shell fuze combination.

302 - QE (quadrant elevation)

Stick - this is a nickname for the M203A1 charge. It is called that because the propellant is contained in a long, one piece cardboard tube.

3188 - this is the deflection. This would be a little left of center line as the azimuth of fire, as it relates to the gun line, is always 3200 mils.

[The firing mechanism is primed at this time. The primer looks like a small, all brass shot gun shell.]

Hook up - the section chief tells the Marine to hook up the lanyard.

stand by - warning for the Marine with the lanyard to be prepared to pull it.

FIRE! - the Marine pulls the lanyard. With the recoil the way it is on a charge 8 (the charge number for stick propellant) you better be out of the way, when that thing goes off!

 

 

In this one you see a more calm firing of a M-198 at Camp Pendleton. The video quality is better and you hear better as well. In this one, you hear the commands coming down over the Vietnam era comm gear (seriously) to the guns from the FDC. At the beginning, you hear two rounds. What you have missed just before that are a few commands that are addressed to the whole battery. it would have gone like this: Fire mission, HEPD, charge 3 green bag, battery 2 rounds. After that, it would get into the data for each gun. They go gun by gun, so the gun here, number 4, waits for thier data. Since the guns are obviously geographically separated, the firing data will be different for each howitzer. Since the FDC did not say at my command, the guns are free to fire their two rounds as the are able. While the gun waits for its deflection and QE, it prepares the right fuze on the right projectile, and readies the propellant. Gun 4's data: Gun 4, deflection 3364, the gun repeats back the command, quadrant 317, the gun repeats back the command. As soon as they get their deflection and QE, the section chief checks the shell/fuze, QE, charge, and deflection. As he approaches the Marine with that duty, they shout out the data he is checking, he then repeats the data and adds "verified" if it is correct.

 

Now, you want to see real chaos, you should watch a howitzer being emplaced! The line of fire will be marked by the advanced party by engineer's tape (actually more of a ribbon if you are unfamiliar with the stuff). The truck drives the opposite direction of the azimuth of fire (the back azimuth of fire or BAF) and just as the truck slows down, things start flying out of the side of the truck. These are things that can't break i (in most cases) like buckets, shovels, picks, etc. When the truck stops, the gunner and a-gunner (assistant) run down the trails to their positions and start screwing on the sights for the QE and deflection. The trails are unhooked and everyone busies themselves with their particular duty. I watched numerous emplacements and I think I saw someone almost gravely injured every single time but no accidents occurred at those times. There are lots of ways to hurt one's self, believe mw (lots of moving heavy objects) but none ever happened upon emplacement. Sorry, no video!

[CaptO]

Here is a link to some good arty information:

http://www.bravecannons.org/the_gun/munitions.html

 

[verow]

Major ,

 

 

On the video .

They are slow in recharge..

One question..The howitzer of this generation use a computer to set the coordinates??

And how many men work for each gun ? A dozen ?

Looks a little crowded, do they really have to be that many at a time?

I hope this is not a stupid question !

 

 

Vee

[CaptO]

Hey Vee! I'm am happy to answer your questions here. I only wish my artillery days weren't so far behind me!!

 

On the video . They are slow in recharge.

If you time them from the firing of Gun 4's first shot to the second one, it is only 20 seconds. That is actually pretty fast. The other crew is only shaving 2 seconds off of that (they fire the second round 18 seconds after the first). The max rate of fire for an M-198 howitzer is 4 rounds per minute. This is assuming that there are certain safety checks (the section chief verification) that are not done. Another thing to consider is that the other video is is in a combat situation. You generally don't get that fast back home because of the safety considerations.

 

One question. The howitzer of this generation use a computer to set the coordinates??

We are all taught how to do manual gunnery. That involves some charts, special protractors, a book of firing tables, and the current meteorological information. The firing tables contain information to compensate for "non-standard conditions". What are the standard conditions? I'm glad you asked! From the FM-6-40:

 

STANDARD CONDITIONS

WEATHER

1 AIR TEMPERATURE 100 PERCENT (59° F)

2 AIR DENSITY 100 PERCENT (1,225 gm/m3)

3 NO WIND

POSITION

1 GUN, TARGET AND MDP AT SAME ALTITUDE

2 ACCURATE RANGE

3 NO ROTATION OF THE EARTH

MATERIAL

1 STANDARD WEAPON, PROJECTILE, AND FUZE

2 PROPELLANT TEMPERATURE (70° F)

3 LEVEL TRUNNIONS AND PRECISION SETTINGS

4 FIRING TABLE

 

So unless the Earth stops turning, you will never achieve "standard conditions".

 

Now on to your question, yes we do use a computer. Because the above process of manual gunnery is slower and less accurate than a computer, a special computer is used for this purpose. The current computer is the AFATDS (Advanced Field Artillery Tactical Data System).

It not only does the computations for the data to put on the howitzer, but it also helps control the batteries within an artillery battalion and even the whole fires effort for the battle. That means that the artillery liaison Marines/soldiers embedded in the infantry use the AFATDS to send the fire mission requests (calls for fire) to their supporting artillery unit. The artillery unit then decides to which battery or batteries the mission will be sent. You can also coordinate preselected targets from the infantry to the higher level arty unit to the firing batteries. It should be noted that the manual system of gunnery computation is still fast enough to be used in battle in case the automated system dies!

 

And how many men work for each gun ? A dozen ? Looks a little crowded, do they really have to be that many at a time?

The M-198 has a crew of 9 under normal circumstances. Of course "normal circumstances" happen about as often as "non-standard conditions" mentioned above. Usually the gun crews have to do with a less. 7 men (included the driver who, while not an artilleryman, can perform some of the less technical functions) is a minimum. The positions are:

Section Chief

Gunner

Assistant Gunner

Ammo Team Chief

Number 1 man

Number 2 man

Number 3 man

Number 4 man

Number 5 man

 

Yes, they are called "number 1 man" or "number 2 man", etc. There is a duty assigned to each number and these are known to all the members. The least experienced Marine (or sometimes the driver when the crew is up to full strength) is called the "Powder Monkey". During firing, this individual stands next to a pit dug about 10 meters from the gun where the unused powder increments are deposited. I should mention that the green bag and white bag propellants can have sections of the powder charge (increments) removed to have less powder in the chamber when firing. The second video had the crew firing 3 green bag. This means that two of the increments were removed.

The powder monkey holds the two removed increments in the air as another way for the section chief to verify that he is firing the right charge. He will look at the charge to be placed in the chamber, and then look at the powder monkey at the pit to see if he is holding the right amount of increments if any were removed.

 

I hope this is not a stupid question !

This would only be a stupid question if you were a crewmember of an M-198 howitzer for any time! Otherwise, I think almost no one would know this kind of info unless they were just a dedicated howitzer fan!

 

Stand by! Hook up! FIRE!!!

 

[verow]

Todd ,

Thank you very much for answering my questions !!

I like to read very much your answers .

I learned a lot !! this was even better than in books !! you are a good professor !!

 

This photo is one my favorites ;

American Artillerists one of Canon Co one of the three IR of 4th US ID to shoot with m3 Howitzer 105mm.

 

This photo illustrates the the cover of the book

"Battle for St-Lo (Battle Zone Normandy)"

by Nigel Lee (Author)

In the book:

page 49 with this caption:

An American gun in action in the sector of Carentan; artillery will contribute to crush the allemandes counter-attacks "

 

PS, Todd , can you tell me where I made errors in my English please !!

 

Vee

[CaptO]

Vee,

I am always ready to teach anyone about stuff that I know about.

 

Here's me with my cub scout troop explaining the finer points of good manners.

 

I have always loved teaching, especially things I find interesting! In other words, I could tell you some about the acquisitions process in the military, but it might a while to type a response between my falling asleep during typing about it. It's not very exciting. What is fascinating is how difficult and convoluted a process a human can devise to accomplish something. The money saved in "eliminating waste" is spent jumping through the acquisitions process. Don't believe me? Check out the Defense Acquisitions University’s website.

 

Back to interesting things, in future tutorials, I can explain the process of "laying" the gun line so they are all in a parallel line down the azimuth of fire. No time for that now, but I will post it here before our time runs out in the "shooting the Breeze" category and the topic is deleted.

 

Vee, I only wish I could speak another language as well as you do! Most Americans cannot, because there isn't much of a need to. We can travel for thousands of miles and still be in the same country. You could drive from Dijon to Sarajevo in 784 miles. That crosses France, Switzerland, Italy, Slovinija, Croatia and Bosnia. If you start in El Paso, Texas and drive to Beaumont, Texas you will have driven 828 miles. 828 miles and your still speakin' Texan.

 

 

If you would like, I'll send you a message when there are ways I can constructively correct your English. There was one thing I was wondering. I notice you add a space before you add punctuation. For example, "I wish I could speak more than one language ." Here, I added the space after the 'e' in language. Is this the way one does things in written French?

 

And now I will leave you with some more Artillery pictures.

 

This is a new M-777 lightweight howitzer in Afghanistan

 

This is a picture taken by one of the public affairs Marines at one Fort Bragg during a 10th Marines exercise, October of 2002. I was the guns platoon commander at the time.

[roque_riojas]

So that's what the Artillery does,huh. I never saw them cause I was slightly ahead of them. Never heard

them or mortars fire. Did hear incomming.

[verow]

Todd ,

 

Americans have already retired the M198. What's going to happen with them after they're replaced by the M777 howitzer? Despite its (M198) very long service history, it's still a very capable weapon system in the right hands. It would be a real shame if you'll just scrap them.

 

The M777 is more mobile than the M109 ? it's light enought to be easily transportable by air and needs a smaller crew ?

 

On the picture or are you ? Are you the soldier who has his hand on the hip?

 

Yes , I would like well, you send a message when there are ways you can correct my English .

 

 

Vee

[verow]

Vee,

I am always ready to teach anyone about stuff that I know about.

 

Here's me with my cub scout troop explaining the finer points of good manners.

 

I have always loved teaching, especially things I find interesting! In other words, I could tell you some about the acquisitions process in the military, but it might a while to type a response between my falling asleep during typing about it. It's not very exciting. What is fascinating is how difficult and convoluted a process a human can devise to accomplish something. The money saved in "eliminating waste" is spent jumping through the acquisitions process. Don't believe me? Check out the Defense Acquisitions University’s website.

 

Back to interesting things, in future tutorials, I can explain the process of "laying" the gun line so they are all in a parallel line down the azimuth of fire. No time for that now, but I will post it here before our time runs out in the "shooting the Breeze" category and the topic is deleted.

 

Vee, I only wish I could speak another language as well as you do! Most Americans cannot, because there isn't much of a need to. We can travel for thousands of miles and still be in the same country. You could drive from Dijon to Sarajevo in 784 miles. That crosses France, Switzerland, Italy, Slovinija, Croatia and Bosnia. If you start in El Paso, Texas and drive to Beaumont, Texas you will have driven 828 miles. 828 miles and your still speakin' Texan.

 

 

If you would like, I'll send you a message when there are ways I can constructively correct your English. There was one thing I was wondering. I notice you add a space before you add punctuation. For example, "I wish I could speak more than one language ." Here, I added the space after the 'e' in language. Is this the way one does things in written French?

 

And now I will leave you with some more Artillery pictures.

 

This is a new M-777 lightweight howitzer in Afghanistan

 

This is a picture taken by one of the public affairs Marines at one Fort Bragg during a 10th Marines exercise, October of 2002. I was the guns platoon commander at the time.

 

Todd ,

 

Americans have already retired the M198. What's going to happen with them after they're replaced by the M777 howitzer? Despite its (M198) very long service history, it's still a very capable weapon system in the right hands. It would be a real shame if you'll just scrap them.

 

The M777 is more mobile than the M109 ? it's light enought to be easily transportable by air and needs a smaller crew ?

 

On the picture or are you ? Are you the soldier who has his hand on the hip?

 

Yes , I would like well, you send a message when there are ways you can correct my English .

 

 

Vee