Marion J Chard
Proud Daughter of Walter (Monday) Poniedzialek
540th Engineer Combat Regiment, 2833rd Bn, H&S Co, 4th Platoon
There's "No Bridge Too Far"
Marion J Chard
Proud Daughter of Walter (Monday) Poniedzialek
540th Engineer Combat Regiment, 2833rd Bn, H&S Co, 4th Platoon
There's "No Bridge Too Far"
9th Infantry and 5th Armored Divisions did not participate in the Battle of the Bulge.
5th Armored were one of the liberators of Luxembourg.
The Division entered the Hurtgen Forest area in late November and pushed the enemy back to the banks of the Roer River in very heavy fighting. On 22 December it was withdrawn to Verviers and placed in 12th Army Group reserve.
From mid-December through January 1945, the 9th Infantry Division held defensive positions from Kalterherberg to Elsenborn.
Sorry dear, the 9th were indeed in the Ardennes/Alsace Campaign. Please see their various sites for this campaign credit. In fact it was after the divisions performance during the Battle of the Bulge that it was nicknamed "Old Reliables".
No offense meant, and this is where the confusion may lie, but the Battle of the Bulge doesn't just mean Bastogne, but refers to entire areas of Alsace and the Ardennes. For instance, The 540th were not in Bastogne, but further south and given credit for the BOB. The area and time period are quite extensive.
The 5th Armored entered the Hurtgen Forest area in late November and pushed the enemy back to the banks of the Roer River in very heavy fighting. On 22 December it was withdrawn to Verviers and placed in 12th Army Group reserve, but earned the Ardennes/Alsace Campaign ribbon, but were technically not part of the Bulge.
Marion J Chard
Proud Daughter of Walter (Monday) Poniedzialek
540th Engineer Combat Regiment, 2833rd Bn, H&S Co, 4th Platoon
There's "No Bridge Too Far"
The Veterans of the Battle of the Bulge Assn. is proud to offer a full color 11" by 17" certificate, which may be ordered by any veteran who received credit for the Ardennes Campaign. It attests that you participated in, endured, and survived the greatest land battle ever fought by the US Army You do not have to be a member of the VBOB Assn. in order to order one, but you must have received the Ardennes credit. This beautiful certificate is produced on parchment-like stock and is outlined by the full color WWII insignias of the major units that fought in the Battle of the Bulge starting with the 12th Army Group followed numerically with Armies, Corps, and Divisions and the two Army Air Forces. We wished that each unit insignia could have been shown but with approximately 2000 units that participated in the Bulge it was impossible. However any unit which served in the Bulge would have been attached to or reported through one of the unit insignia depicted. You may want to add one of your original patches to the certificate, when you receive it. Units were researched in the Official General Order No. 114 for Units Entitled to the ARDENNES Battle Credit and will be the basis for sale of this certificate. The unit insignias shown are also those used in the design of the Battle of the Bulge Memorial Conference Table dedicated and on view in the Garrison Library at Ft Meade, MD (open Men & Wed 12:30-3 00 PM...
Marion J Chard
Proud Daughter of Walter (Monday) Poniedzialek
540th Engineer Combat Regiment, 2833rd Bn, H&S Co, 4th Platoon
There's "No Bridge Too Far"
Marion, that's where the confusion starts ...... we see The Bulge and the Alsace Campaigns as two separate Campaigns.
Although they are linked to each other, they are in fact two Operations;
Ardennes: Wacht am Rhein
Alsace: Nordwind 31 December 1944 - 5 January 1945 followed by Operation Sonnenwende 5 - 25 January 1945.
I do know the Ardennes are not just Bastogne; I roamed the area since 1984 and know perfectly well the different areas of combat.
I even made an unfinished study of the fighting in and around Wltz (Luxembourg) both in December 1944 and January 1945.
The Ardennes Campaign is very well known for the actions of small(er) units.
When the Ardennes Campaign was nearing its end - what offensive action of the Germans was concerned - Operation Nordwind was started in the Alsace area.
So to make it short ....... we're both right.
Btw, there were also Belgian Fusselier units involved in the Ardennes Campaign.
Yes indeed. I know you have extensive knowledge of the area and the battle and I hope my words didn't come across harshly for that is not how I meant for it all. You are very knowledgable and that's one of the reasons I enjoy your presence here on our forum.
Sometimes when I am speaking I am doing so for the benefit of all reading, so thus when I say, "...but the Battle of the Bulge doesn't just mean Bastogne, but refers to entire areas of Alsace and the Ardennes...", it's for everyone who may not know much about BOB.
As far as the campaigns, the two are inter-mixed many times when credits were given to the units. If you look on various documents such as my dad's discharge papers, or read through army archives, it will simply state Ardennes/Alsace Campaign. That's throwing a lot in there hey? Sure is!
Marion J Chard
Proud Daughter of Walter (Monday) Poniedzialek
540th Engineer Combat Regiment, 2833rd Bn, H&S Co, 4th Platoon
There's "No Bridge Too Far"
It is what the Campaign ribbon states too: Ardennes - Alsace.
So I guess the US Army cut corners and did not make two separate Campaign credits but only one.
When I speak about the Battle of The Bulge, I do mean the area of the Belgian and Luxembourg Ardennes.
The other operations is simply known to me as the Alsace Campaign.
Just wanted to make this clear.
For the "ordinary" soldier it didn't give a damm in what Campaign he was in.
He just tried to survive the horrors of war and get it all over with so he could go home .... hopefully in one piece.
Heck, if I was freezing my tail off, trying to avoid some Kraut putting a hole in me .... I wouldn't start wondering "now, in what glorious Campaign am I participating in now?"
I bet those guys "on the other side" thought the same thing (unless they were a brain-washed ardent nazi).
Btw, I am not easily offended and did not take your replies the wrong way.
Well spoken! In fact I won't add a thing because you said it all so beautifully!
Marion J Chard
Proud Daughter of Walter (Monday) Poniedzialek
540th Engineer Combat Regiment, 2833rd Bn, H&S Co, 4th Platoon
There's "No Bridge Too Far"
It is what the Campaign ribbon states too: Ardennes - Alsace.
So I guess the US Army cut corners and did not make two separate Campaign credits but only one.
When I speak about the Battle of The Bulge, I do mean the area of the Belgian and Luxembourg Ardennes.
The other operations is simply known to me as the Alsace Campaign.
Just wanted to make this clear.
For the "ordinary" soldier it didn't give a damm in what Campaign he was in.
He just tried to survive the horrors of war and get it all over with so he could go home .... hopefully in one piece.
Heck, if I was freezing my tail off, trying to avoid some Kraut putting a hole in me .... I wouldn't start wondering "now, in what glorious Campaign am I participating in now?"
I bet those guys "on the other side" thought the same thing (unless they were a brain-washed ardent nazi).
Btw, I am not easily offended and did not take your replies the wrong way.
Erwin
Indeed. The Battles of the Ardennes and Alsace are entirely different. It is a shame the US Army chose to lump them together as a single campaign credit. Regardless, from a historical standpoint it is a mistake to treat these major two battles as connected. They were separated by territory and involved different American and German armies and army groups.
The Battle of Alsace is in fact a misnomer. While it might correctly be referred to as the Second Battle of Alsace, the initial attacks and a fair share of the fighting occured in Eastern Lorraine.
Although some tend think Operation Nordwind was over by the first week of January, the number of German units engaged with Seventh Army actually increased. At least one German source treats Operation Nordwind as lasting until 25 January 1945.
Most importantly, Operation Nordwind, which precipitated the Battle of Alsace, was the last major German offensive of the war, not the Battle of the Ardennes. This is an important distinction that has been lost over the years due to the inaccurate reporting of, and continuing focus on the Battle of the Ardennes as the last major German offensive of the war. Hence the tendency for those veterans who stopped the last major German offensive of the war to identify with the Battle of the Ardennes/Bulge.
From a military history perspective it seems a disservice to the veterans of Seventh Army, and in particular, VI Corps, to lump their sacrifices and accomplishments in under the Battle of the Ardennes/Bulge. Instead, we should be working to set the record straight at every possible opportunity.
